14 replies to this topic

[sigmfsk]

Hi all:
Has there been any discussion on the different mounting locations for the windshield washer reservoir in 1974 Monacos? From my quick analysis, the only thing I notice is that all civilian Monacos are on the driver side. And police Monacos can be on either side.

civilian:

driver side

'74 2-door
440
http://www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/bluesmobiles-sale/10090-usa-1974-monaco-2-door-missouri.html#post110741

'74 hardtop
400
http://www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/bluesmobiles-sale/9416-usa-1974-monaco-hardtop-pennsylvania.html#post105924

'74 sedan
360
http://www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/bluesmobiles-sale/9248-canada-1974-monaco-bluesmobile-alberta.html#post104644

---

'74 sedan police 440

driver side
king-of-the-hill (pic attached)

---

passenger side

buffalo
http://www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/bluesmobiles-sale/9158-usa-1974-chp-spec-monaco-buffalo-ny.html#post103336

marin county (pic attached)

--------------------

And it looks like there could be different mounting points for the spare tire in the trunk. My spare tire rod is mounted on the right side of the trunk (pic 3), but king-of-the-hill looks like its mounted forward and on the left side of the trunk (pic 4). I like the king-of-the-hill mounting - it looks like it would keep more trunk space open. Any ideas on these different mounting points?

thanks,
arthur

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[sigmfsk]

I'm now going through my engine harness, and see that there is an extension for the windshield washer pump. But there isn't an extension for the "low washer level" idiot light. I thought that maybe an extension was missing, but it seems that cars with the reservoir on the passenger side just didn't have the low-level idiot light connected.

See my reservoir (pic 1). It has no connector on the top for the low-level sender. This seems to correspond with the only other passenger reservoir car I've seen (buffalo - pic 2).

As comparison, pic 3 shows the driver-side reservoir with the low-level sender connector circled in red.

I thought that maybe there was a good reason why they would move the reservoir, even though it resulted in the idiot-light not being connected. Like something cool being mounted on the driver side inner wheel-well? There's nothing there on mine, but I don't think this gives us any reliable information on what came from the factor. But look at Buffalo - all the space where the reservoir would normally reside appears unused.

Then I thought that maybe the reason was that they ran out of passenger side reservoirs, and they used up their stock of non-idiot-light driver side reservoirs. But if this is the case, it seems like a rare feature, so it couldn't have helped too much. And could/would Dodge elect to not connect the low-level washer idiot light just because it was convenient for them, in contradiction to the operation described in the owner's manual? I guess they could get away with that on police cars, but I don't know about civilian cars.

your friend in the mysteries of Ma Mopar,
arthur

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[scatpack01]

Arthur, I get a kick out of the way you sign off.

I need to check my Monaco and see where these things are located. I got a ton of pics on here. I might can see where my spare tire is mounted.

[Mr Mercer]

Mine is like the brown one (pic 3) but I have a battery isolator on the right side where the other 2 have there's . Its part of the towing pkg .

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[sigmfsk]

Hi Mr. Mercer:

Your post gives me two questions:

It looks in your pic that you do NOT have a connector going to the top of your windshield washer reservoir for the low-fluid-level idiot-light. Does that sound right? It doesn't even look like it has the sender for it. That seems strange - especially since the wiring harness will reach that far.

> I have a battery isolator on the right side where the other 2 have there's .
Are you saying that on the right (passenger) side of your car, where the reservoir is on my car, you have a battery isolator, which would preclude your reservoir going there? That's an interesting tidbit of information. Can you send a pic of that side of the engine compartment? I can't really make it out in your attached pic.

thanks,
your friend in signoffs that make scatpack smile,
arthur

[TK826]

In my notes I have photos of both original police cars and civilian cars with the reservoir
on either side, (some left.. some right) and with and without the sending units.

But it does look like the majority of the police cruisers (that I have photos of) have the reservoir on the passenger side.

[sigmfsk]

TK826 said:

In my notes I have photos of both original police cars and civilian cars with the reservoir on either side, (some left.. some right) and with and without the sending units.

But it does look like the majority of the police cruisers (that I have photos of) have the reservoir on the passenger side.

Wow. That is good info. Being that a passenger-side reservoir uses a mini-extension harness (at least on my car), I would guess that having the reservoir on the passenger side would only be done if something required it. Like a specific option that placed something in the reservoir location on the driver side. Maybe police cars could oftentimes come with this option, so they usually put the reservoir on the passenger side, even if the police car in question didn't actually have that option.

Can you see anything in any of the passenger-side pics that show something in the driver side reservoir space?

thanks,
arthur

[sigmfsk]

I was looking at this thread
http://www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/bluesmobiles-sale/10278-1977-royal-monaco-u-code-440-hp-a38-real-police-car-nj.html
which points to this craigslist ad
1977 Dodge Royal Monaco Police Package A38 U code 440HP real #'s match
that has many pics. This police Monaco has a passenger-side reservoir (pic 1). I noticed that the driver-side has a cooler for the power steering pump (pic 2). So maybe one always got a passenger-side reservoir if you had a power steering cooler, which normally (only?) came on cop cars.

When I got my car, the power steering was all connected, but it didn't have a power steering cooler on it. I don't know if it had it originally. But it has a bracket welded the subframe that looks like it might have come from the factory that way (because the weld seems pretty) (pic 3 and 4). There was nothing on the bracket.

But it does seem un-factory like in that the bracket would seem to preclude the use of inner-fender splash guard around the a-arm (and possibly preclude the use of a driver-side reservoir). Any ideas on what this bracket could be for?

I did find out that the reservoir used on either side is exactly the same. So the hypothesis of using a passenger-side reservoir because they ran out of driver-side reservoirs doesn't hold water. When used on the passenger-side, standoffs are used to provide the same style mounting surface as that on the driver-side (pic 5). So with also requiring the washer pump harness extension, there was some extra work involved with using a passenger-side reservoir.

The reservoir has three part numbers:

the reservoir itself (the large container, but with no lid)
the lid (with or without low-fluid level switch)
and an "assembly" which consists of a reservoir, and lid.

part numbers:
reservoir: 3431919 (for use with either lid)
lid (no switch): 3431920
lid (switch): 3431921
assembly (no switch): 3431917
assembly (switch): 3431918

your friend in breaking the code of the mobile mystery reservoirs,
arthur

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[starlifter]

the brown dodge in arthurs post above (pic 3) is my 74 hardtop. both that one and my sedan have the reservoir on the drivers side in the same location.

[Mr Mercer]

sigmfsk said:

Hi Mr. Mercer:

Your post gives me two questions:

It looks in your pic that you do NOT have a connector going to the top of your windshield washer reservoir for the low-fluid-level idiot-light. Does that sound right? It doesn't even look like it has the sender for it. That seems strange - especially since the wiring harness will reach that far.

> I have a battery isolator on the right side where the other 2 have there's .
Are you saying that on the right (passenger) side of your car, where the reservoir is on my car, you have a battery isolator, which would preclude your reservoir going there? That's an interesting tidbit of information. Can you send a pic of that side of the engine compartment? I can't really make it out in your attached pic.

thanks,
your friend in signoffs that make scatpack smile,
arthur

Here's those pics , is the flat 2 prong plug for the fluid low light ? Its in the harness not hooked to anything .

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[sigmfsk]

Thanks for the pics! Here's my current line of thinking:

Reasons for a driver-side reservoir (seems like good evidence for these)
a) it's the default location (no extension washer pump harness needed; no standoffs needed; no extra length rubber hose needed; could have low-fluid-level idiot light usage if appropriate lid was installed on reservoir)
b) if the towing package was added, a passenger-side reservoir would interfere with the battery-isolator.

Reasons for a passenger-side reservoir (seems like flimsy evidence / lack of details for these)
A) if power steering cooler was added, a driver-side reservoir would interfere with the cooler.
B) if mystery addition Marin County was added (a bracket welded to the subframe that held a mystery device), a driver-side reservoir would interfere with the mystery device.

I wonder what would happen if a car had a power steering cooler and the towing package.

> ...is the flat 2 prong plug for the fluid low light ?

Yes, that's it! Attached is the connector information (from the 1974 service manual).

With the engine on, one side of the connector should be ground (V9 20BK), and the other should be +12V. And if you connect them together, the low-fluid-level idiot light should illuminate. Although, if Ma Mopar elected to give you the lid without the switch, maybe she also elected to not populate the instrument cluster with a light bulb for this idiot light.

thanks for helping with the pics showing what could be mounted in different locations,
arthur

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[sigmfsk]

The '74 Monaco brochure
http://www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/bluesmobiles/10114-brochures-1974-monaco-custom-brougham.html
has some tidbits of information:

2-speed windshield wipers were standard on monaco, custom, brougham

but the "deluxe windshield wiper package" added 3-speed wipers, and the washer fluid level indicator.

My switch is a 3-speed switch (the switch has 4 positions - one for off), so it looks like I have that option, and maybe this option combination explains why some cars don't have the reservoir lid with the low-fluid-level switch included.

It struck me as odd that a police agency would think an extra windshield washer speed/low-fluid-level indicator was an important option.

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[sigmfsk]

I just got in my '76 parts car, and I think I'm hitting critical mass. It's answering all types of questions.

This post
http://www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/bluesmobiles/11027-diy-engine-cold-air-intake.html#post115061
outlines my belief that '74 and '75 came with open air cleaner assemblies, but '76 and '77 came with an air intake duct.
I think the reason that we see some Monacos with passenger side windshield washer reservoirs is that the default location changed from driver-side (in '74 and '75) to passenger side (in '76 and '77) simply to give the air duct room to reach the yoke.

The '74 parts catalog shows a driver-side reservoir setup. And the '76 parts catalog shows a passenger-side reservoir setup. Its actually a different part number. A '76 standard passenger-side reservoir is a different PN and mounted differently than an atypical passenger-side mounted reservoir in '74.

So its a still a mystery as to what option(s) existed in '74 or '75 that resulted in the reservoir being moved to the passenger side. But at least the question is now better formed.

Another interesting change is that in '74 the washer fluid was pumped at the windshield via sprays clipped to the underside back of the hood. In '76 the washer fluid is pumped THROUGH a hose in the washer arm, then sprayed out at the windshield while the arm is moving back and forth. I guess I don't know which setup to keep. Maybe both - its a backup system for "the mission".

[Ford jockey]

sigmfsk said:

Thanks for the pics! Here's my current line of thinking:

Reasons for a driver-side reservoir (seems like good evidence for these)
a) it's the default location (no extension washer pump harness needed; no standoffs needed; no extra length rubber hose needed; could have low-fluid-level idiot light usage if appropriate lid was installed on reservoir)
b) if the towing package was added, a passenger-side reservoir would interfere with the battery-isolator.

Reasons for a passenger-side reservoir (seems like flimsy evidence / lack of details for these)
A) if power steering cooler was added, a driver-side reservoir would interfere with the cooler.
B) if mystery addition Marin County was added (a bracket welded to the subframe that held a mystery device), a driver-side reservoir would interfere with the mystery device.

I wonder what would happen if a car had a power steering cooler and the towing package.

> ...is the flat 2 prong plug for the fluid low light ?

Yes, that's it! Attached is the connector information (from the 1974 service manual).

With the engine on, one side of the connector should be ground (V9 20BK), and the other should be +12V. And if you connect them together, the low-fluid-level idiot light should illuminate. Although, if Ma Mopar elected to give you the lid without the switch, maybe she also elected to not populate the instrument cluster with a light bulb for this idiot light.

thanks for helping with the pics showing what could be mounted in different locations,
arthur

I have actually seen the resevoir on both sides of a CHP spec car. My cars has the plug on the left side also and I do have the reservoir that will plug into it.

Arthur, that welded bracket is the same as mine it is a special CHP spec underhood speaker mount. There should be another smaller bracket that also attaches to it with a bolt. I have plans to utilize the one in my car shortly.

You guy took pictures so close to the spot of wiring I'm trying to figure out too.:eek:

[sigmfsk]

Ford jockey said:

Arthur, that welded bracket is the same as mine it is a special CHP spec underhood speaker mount. There should be another smaller bracket that also attaches to it with a bolt. I have plans to utilize the one in my car shortly.

Thanks, Ford. As you mention, I think that bracket is used to support the weight of the CHP speaker, and the speaker was also mounted to the inner-wheel-well.

I think pics 1 and 2 of 440RULEZs car (the one Dave Arnold restored) show a good CHP setup. I've asked 440RULEZ for closeups of the speaker mounting situation. The pics are from links 440RULEZ provides here:
http://www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum/bluesmobiles/11608-ceiling-mount-rear-view-mirror.html

Ford jockey said:

I have actually seen the resevoir on both sides of a CHP spec car. My cars has the plug on the left side also and I do have the reservoir that will plug into it.

From what I can tell, all CHP cars originally had a left-side speaker (or siren or whatever goes there) and a right-side windshield washer reservoir. Looking at pic 3 (a stock civilian 74 - Bluzman's awesome grandma car) and then at pic 2, it seems clear that between the speaker and battery there is no room for a left-side reservoir.

Now I don't have a lot of data, but for a CHP car to come with a left-side reservoir, I think either:
- it didn't have a speaker mounted
or
- it had a speaker much shorter than 440RULEZs, and it would still seem to be funny to put a reservoir right in front of it

which doesn't seem likely. My car, with no power steering cooler had a right-side reservoir. I can't think of any reason why that would be other than to make room for the speaker (which mine had, according to the frame mounted bracket).

Well, those are my guesses for the day,
arthur

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