40 replies to this topic

[Monaco74]

Hello everybody.

I am collecting information regarding interest in restoration of 1974 Dodge/Plymouth 14omph Certified Speedometer face restoration. I need to know how many people out there face a similar situation to mine, and desire to fix it.

My 14omph speedometer (picture below) has severe fading from California's brutal summer sun exposure. I called the guys at Autoinstruments.com to see if it could be restored. No surprise here, they do not stock the artwork for this application. They would have to custom make the artwork just for my speedometer. This would be expensive, about $275 U.S. However, I was told that if I could find some other people who would like the same service done, the individual price would be reduced.

So my question is: Are there any 14omph Certified speedometer owners facing a similar situation that would like to have their speedometer face restored to show quality. If so, please chime in here.

I realize this is a niche' product, applying only to 1974 Dodge Monaco AND Plymouth Fury speedometers, but it is possible that we would be laying a smoother path to 14omph speedo ownership for future hobbyists. I plan to post this same topic on police car forums as they are just as likely to be interested as us Bluesmobile fanatics.

Attached Files

•  speedo2.JPG   167.34K   38 downloads

[TK826]

Are you saying that they will make you an entirely new faceplate, or clean/ repair the existing one ?

[Monaco74]

My inquiry to Autoinstruments was about restoring my original 14omph unit. I did not ask about using a faceplate other than the 14o.

This is just my speculation here, but I would imagine converting a non 14o face would be difficult because the numbers/ hash marks would overlap. ~I do not know this for sure however.

I DO know that putting a 14o face on a 12o speedo from 1974 or a 100mph speedo from 1975-1977 will not work without changing the gears in the speedometer housing. The gears in the housing are specific to the face. I do not know about the availability of those gears.

I can ask about a 14o conversion, but like I mentioned, without the 14o gears in the housing, it wouldn't work anyway. Hope this information helps readers here.

[Ghostbluesman]

It would be neat if they made a replaceable '74 face for us '75 owners....

Rob

[Ford jockey]

Hey I got a NOS 120 non certified I sure would like anew white one...orange soda color justdoes not cut it.

[sigmfsk]

Monaco74 said:

My 14omph speedometer (picture below) has severe fading...

Hi Monaco74:

Did the lettering on all speedometers start out perfectly white, as in the attached screen shot?

I also attach a pic of the buffalo monaco e-bay pic, where the speedo looks very slightly orange. And then your speedo lettering looks deep orange.

So faded doesn't mean "hard to read" - it means "changed color from white to orange"?

Have your received any interest in splitting the cost of generating the artwork to reface a speedo? I'm sure I'll be doing that (either to reface an original 14o speedo, or bluesmobiling a 12o speedo).

thanks,
arthur

Attached Files

•  2-07-51.jpg   120.93K   25 downloads
•  buffalo-speedo.jpg   61.54K   28 downloads

[TK826]

I found a place that says they can change a Monaco 120 speedo,
into a 140 speedo and recalibrate the needle to read correctly.

They claim to have... "the lowest prices on the internet".
But.... they will not give a firm quote until the speedometer is removed from the car and sent to them for inspection.

I can dig up and post the info... if anyone is interested.

[Ford jockey]

I'd be interested since the one I have is just sitting in a box. I have another face plate also but again its a civilian one. Thanks.:D

[sigmfsk]

I'm interested too. In addition to getting the faceplate re-screened for white lettering, I'd like to convert the speedometer into using the VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) signals from a late model transmission instead of being cable driven. And if I'm going to have this mod done, I might as well booger up a civilian speedometer instead of an original 140 certified.

The reason for conversion to VSS: I'm looking at installing a 4L80E transmission, as it seems to be the cheapest way to fit a small overdrive transmission that can handle high HP. It doesn't have a mechanical cable sender for the speedometer. I can have the transmission modified to drive a cable for $500 or $600:
Southwest Streetworks Online
R&D Engineering Online
4L80E page
4L80E Stage1
Bowler Transmissions | Early 700R4 / 4L60E Tailhousing With Mechanical & VSS Sensor | Custom Tailhousings for Mechanical Speedometers

Or I can get this box that converts the VSS signal and mechanically drives a speedometer cable for $325
Cable X...Electronic Speed Signal to Mechanical Speedometer Adapter

With this, it wouldn't matter if the speedometer was internally converted from 120 mph to 14o mph. If just the face was re-screened from 120 to 140, I could just tell the cablex to drive the cable at 120/140 of the normal rate. The speedometer would read correctly, but the odometer would read slow.

I could live with a slow rolling odometer, but if costs less than $325 total to convert the speedometer from cable to VSS and from 120 to 140, all at the same time, then I'm ahead of the game. And I won't have to have a clunky cablex box in the engine compartment.

I thought of taking a $160 VSS electric speedometer
Stewart Warner 82896 - Stewart Warner Deluxe Series Speedometers - Overview - SummitRacing.com
and integrating it behind the stock face, but then the odometer wouldn't work at all.

Even if nobody's doing a VSS conversion, I still might be interested in the internal conversion from 120 to 140, and I'm definitely interested in working together on getting the 140 re-screen artwork price down by sharing the cost.

your friend in trying to include all my links in a post so I can refer back to them later,
arthur

[Ford jockey]

Let me know who does the conversion...I have a few contacts on the HAMB board that do speedo's. I know the head has been changed at least once on my CHP car. Hey maybe we can get someone that can figure out the 5 watt reducer for the oil & temp sensor gauge too. I think I even have a new circuit board too, along with a couple of reducers.

[TK826]

Here is the place:

http://www.bobsspeedometer.com/1/120/index.asp


* Through emails, I have found that Bob is a really friendly person who is eager to help others with their restorations.

** If you decide not to have them do the work, they will ship the speedo back to you,
at their own expense.

[Monaco74]

Well, I investigated refacing soon after I originally posted this thread and it turns out we're SOL. The guy at Autoinstrusments thought the speedo face was metal, meaning it could be rescreened. There is no such thing as rescreening these plastic faces. The white lettering is embedded, not on the surface. It needs to be translucent for illumination at night.

To answer Sigmfsk's questions: 1) Yes, all 14o Cert Speedos started out perfectly white 2) Yes, "faded" means it turned from white to orange/deep orange from sun exposure. 3) Interest seemed dead until the resurection of this post this week.

What we need to do = Find out the process that was used to manufacture these face plates to see if someone can reprint them.

I do have one idea : I have seen a WHITE FACE 1974 12o Speedo aplique' show up on ebay. They are new items for people who want to pimp out their ride. My idea is to get a hold of this company and see if they can print an aplique' with the black background and make it read to 14o. This still leaves the need for 14o speedo gears however, as I explained in the third post of this thread.

[Beefmalone]

I have 2 cop speedos. One in the car and one waiting to go in another. I'm interested in a rescreen similar to the white-face overlay but in black of course.

[sigmfsk]

> [Monaco74] Interest seemed dead until the resurrection of this post this week.
Isn't it great when an old thread comes alive!

> [Monaco74] The white lettering is embedded, not on the surface. It needs to be translucent for illumination at night.
Great info. That's a key piece of information.

> [Monaco74] ...My idea is to get a hold of this company and see if they can print an aplique' with the black background and make it read to 14o.
Good plan. How about you pursue that, I'll pursue getting in touch with Bob.

> [TK826] Here is the place:
> Bob's Speedometer

Bob is just an hour from me. And now that I have an actual 14o mph speedometer, I could take it to him for analysis. I'll call him and post what I find out.

> This still leaves the need for 14o speedo gears however, as I explained in the third post of this thread.
I think this part will be straightforward; I'll ask Bob. For this issue we have slightly different goals, as I'm interested in having the speedo modified to run directly from the VSS without a cable. And I see here:

Custom Work, Modifications & Restoration
> 1934 Packard
> Change All Gauges and Speedometer to Electronic.
> Keeping original artwork on faces.

so that sounds promising.

your friend in updated speedometers,
arthur

[Ford jockey]

Monaco74 said:

Well, I investigated refacing soon after I originally posted this thread and it turns out we're SOL. The guy at Autoinstrusments thought the speedo face was metal, meaning it could be rescreened. There is no such thing as rescreening these plastic faces. The white lettering is embedded, not on the surface. It needs to be translucent for illumination at night.

To answer Sigmfsk's questions: 1) Yes, all 14o Cert Speedos started out perfectly white 2) Yes, "faded" means it turned from white to orange/deep orange from sun exposure. 3) Interest seemed dead until the resurection of this post this week.

What we need to do = Find out the process that was used to manufacture these face plates to see if someone can reprint them.

I do have one idea : I have seen a WHITE FACE 1974 12o Speedo aplique' show up on ebay. They are new items for people who want to pimp out their ride. My idea is to get a hold of this company and see if they can print an aplique' with the black background and make it read to 14o. This still leaves the need for 14o speedo gears however, as I explained in the third post of this thread.

Interesting since it isn't lit from the back. If I remember correctly they were screened in the first place which is why they yellowed/oranged. *Note its the only year that did this in fact the heat/ac control head will also orange out. I realize that one can apply a lettering decal to the rough surface but silk screeen shouldn't be that difficult. I used to work in a factory that made all the air line bags and gear and we sreened over rought material. I'm going to have to talk to some Mopar contacts here that do magazine cars to see what can be done. Hey maybe some old watch maker has the answer we can make our speedo's glow with fluorescent paint.

[sigmfsk]

I think there's something to this needing to be illuminated from behind. Here's a pic of mine from the front, then the back. Each of those black handles is for a light-bulb, and each light-bulb, other than the bottom two, illuminates through the plastic. The bottom two light the openings for the gas gauge an anmeter.

From left to right, top to bottom, while looking at the back:

speedo (around 100mph), speedo (around 30mph)
right turn arrow, washer fluid, brake, high beam blue dot, door ajar, left turn arrow
hot, oil
alternator illumination, gas gauge illumination

I attach a pic of me shining a flashlight through the opening for the 30mph, and then for the "door ajar". The reddish tint is due to me covering the camera flash with my thumb. It was easier than figuring out how to turn off the camera flash.

Now for the good news, and the bad news.
I spoke with Bruce of Bob's Speedometer. Bruce is the owner; Bob was his dad.

Bruce sounded familiar with the chore of re-doing a plastic faceplate that had illumination from behind. He gave me a rough estimate of $500 or $600 for a faceplate. I mentioned that I might be able to get a half dozen folks interested in doing the same thing, and he estimated that with that many people, it would be about $300 per faceplate. I asked if he did up the artwork, and then sent it to a printer, and he said that they did it all in-house.

He said recalibrating the speedometer for from 120mph to 140mph was straightforward - about $125.

I asked him about converting a speedometer to run from VSS instead of cable and he said "oh, you want the cablex [converter box]". I mentioned that his web-site references a true speedometer conversion to electric without the need for a cablex box and he said that was really expensive - about $1000.

$500 for a new faceplate is way out of my price-range. But I can understand that its expensive with everything involved - those hidden "door ajar" icons that only appear when illuminated must make things tricky.

I hope that Monaco74 finds better news with the e-bay seller.
/arthur

Attached Files

•  P1010073a.jpg   174K   31 downloads
•  P1010075a.jpg   148.24K   22 downloads
•  P1010080a.jpg   225.3K   22 downloads
•  P1010081a.jpg   205.88K   22 downloads

[Beefmalone]

for $500 I'll stick with ol' yeller :D

[TK826]

Quote

Bruce is the owner...

Sorry, I must have remembered the "B" name as "Bob".

They never did give me a price, and now that I see it, that does seem kind of high.

[sigmfsk]

I went to see Bruce of Bob's Speedometer, and left my instrument cluster and water temp / oil pressure gauges to have him refurbish, verify my wiring plan for the gauges, and to get a solid quote on getting the 14o mph rescreened (quote for qty 1, and quote for qty 6 - in case we can get a bulk purchase going).

It is in impressive shop. Its small, but well organized. Along with the general assembly area, there were five different booths, all with their own environmental system (I don't remember the specifics of each booth: maybe grinding, polishing, cleaning, silk screening). There were tons of gauges from all over the world they were working on - boats, planes, cars. I have no doubt they'd do a good job on making a 14o mph face. I'll post more when I get all my goodies back (probably a few weeks).

your friend in working gauges,
arthur

[Ford jockey]

Thanks Arthur, I am really interested. I pulled out my spare speedo the other day its one with te smaller numbers and probably needs going through. I did find the NOS face plate (non certified) too.