67 replies to this topic

[Jo_Pierce]

A few of us have been batting around some thoughts and ideas about the Blues Brothers and what it means in terms of social commentary, subtext, etc etc.

I thought this deserved its own thread. You know, for egghead stuff.

Vinnie Blues brought up the idea that the scene at Chez Paul really was a great scene showing social class.

I have seen several comments made about the opening of the movie, and why the factories had to be there - as setting up the context for working class Chicago of the late 1970s/early 1980s.


I also mentioned somewhere that I think The Blues Brothers is really a modern version of "The Trickster." NPR did a great story on Bugs Bunny as The Trickster - and I think that the boys also fit that bill.

Anyway, ladies and gents, I open this thread for these sorts of conversations.

Call me Egghead Blues.

[Jo_Pierce]

Although I am not a big BB2000 fan, I thought I'd start this off with my absolute favorite Elwood quote.


Elwood: Those goons are orphan remnants of the post-Perestroika Soviet Secret Police apparatus which, until 1991, carried out its own twisted interpriation of the well intentioned original Marxist-Lennin doctrine using the State Security, which was massivly corrrupted by Beria at the end of the '30s. Of course once a mass populace is coerced into such behaviour as a permanant condition of their mind, a radical dictortial, dialetic shift such as Glasnost, produces guys like these: stunned headless automata whose only purpose in their lives is the continuation of brutish measures to which their genetic code has been programmed since the fall of the Romanovs.


Now, if anyone ever says that Elwood isn't the intellectual type... **shakes head**

Plus, he studied Latin.

[Vinnie Blues]

Thank you Jo for bringing this up.

Warning : this comment can go very far. But not for the reasons I am usually known for. LOL

The scene at Chez Paul is for me typical of the class divide and subversiveness of the movie. I must say I was born into a working class family and was raised in that consciousness. For these reasons, I feel I can relate to Jake and Elwood, belonging to the working class and somehow, being proud of this.

The class divide is obvious in the restaurant lobby. When Jake and Elwood meet Mr Fabulous there. See Elwood when he looks through the glass door : it always strikes me. You can read on his face, when he watches all these elegant people having a drink, that he will never, ever be like them. The glass separating him from them is transparent but the class divide is far thicker. Everybody turns their heads when they hear the argument between Jake and Mr Fabulous. We can read in return in their eyes curiosity and - let's say it - contempt in front of this young man that's watching them. There's no envy in Elwood's expression, but he just looks puzzled and he seemed to realize that he's out of place in this environment. For a second or two, both worlds met but they didn't even collide.

We can push the issue further. Once the brothers are seated at the table, they began to display all the bad manners possible. No doubt they exagerate the thing. I'm sure the Penguin did raise them boys far better than that. Of course, they behave in a provocative way to compel their trumpet, Mr Fabulous to give in to their wish to put the band back together. Y'all know that.

Then the family enters in the scene. They are already there. Jake and Elwood have just sit and the father glanced at them suspiciously. Later on, he calls the maitre d, Mr Fabulous, and talks him into changing them to another table. Reason : these two gentlemen, Jake and Elwood, smell bad.

Whether they may or not is not relevant. I don't think they are really. Mr Fabulous or the old couple in the lobby didn't show any sign of disgust. Or they were too polite to show it, that's possible too. But the father raised the issue after the display of bad manners by the brothers. Even Mr Fabulous is shocked by the statement that they smell bad. After all, Jake and Elwood are his friends. He says nothing but seems to find the statement unfair.

Thing is, the first thing we tend to say about someone strange or foreign, is that they smell bad. Bad smell is something that racist folks will raise (it happens here in France, people say that, maybe that's why that statement hit home somehow). Someone different : they smell bad. Someone with weird habits : they smell bad. Someone with a strange accent : they smell bad. Someone not-like-us : they smell bad. Whether it's true or not is not relevant.

I think this is the same phenomenon at work in that scene. That's why the issue of bad smell is raised. The father guessed at once that these two gentlemen were not of the same background. They had nothing to do here. If they can't go, we'll leave then. Maitre d, please could you move us to another table ?

As if on purpose, Jake picks on that particular family. He must have felt they were the perfect prey for the trick he intended to play on Mr Fabulous. Also, Jake and Elwood are musicians. They are blessed with a fine hearing. They must have heard the bad smell comment from the father.

We have to note that the kids (the daughters) did not view the brothers the same way as their parents did. The elder daughter had noticed Elwood - who had noticed her too. The little girl had noticed the two strange guys nearby and we can read on her face that she would like to behave like them. She has a tiny smile, a quick glance at them, repressed by a stern look from her father.

When Elwood grins broadly to the father, greeting him with a wave of his hand, his mouth is full, which is properly said bad manner. The father does not reply to the friendly gesture. He doesn't want to be friendly with these kind of individuals. He's even disgusted and it shows on his face.

Two worlds meeting but this time they will collide.

When Jake talks to the father, naturally he fakes a foreign accent. As if he wanted to stay in line with the persona given to him by the father and the mother, that is the image of the bad smelling, weird looking stranger now almost dining with them.

"How much for the little girl ?" Jake's question is not only for fun. Not only he wants to play it foreign (fake accent) but also with weird customs - buying children. And eventually eating in their plates, picking food with his own fingers. A real savage. Who is this ? Who can buy kids and what for, if not someone who is not civilized, or at least that does not belong to our world ? All these questions run in the father's mind. Jake will later on suggest to buy the wife. More than the slap in the father's back, we can feel this is what made the poor man cough.

All this, coupled with the provocative behavior of Jake and Elwood - the bread stuffing clinches the argument once and for all about Mr Fabulous coming back into the band - offers a subtle controversy over the powerful class divide between the upper class of Chicago, and the working class that is also part of this city - like any other city either.

The subversive part is that reaffirmed by the final provocation : Jake and Elwood have eat almost everything and drunk the whole bottle of Dom Perignon '71 without paying the check. They leave like this. After all, they're on a mission from God, they're in a hurry to put the band back together. They don't care for petty details like a check in a posh restaurant.

At last, Mr Fabulous doesn't react when the father calls him angrily. Maybe he's fed up to be the servant of all these rich people. Even if he is in a 'high paying gig', he doesn't seem to enjoy his work. Maybe he misses his life as a musician. He knows he's gonna lose his job there but he almost looks relieved.

I love that restaurant scene for all these reasons. Class divide, subversiveness, are parts of the atmosphere of the movie. There are several degrees of watching that movie. This is one. This is a powerful scene in this regard. There are others, dealing with more or less the same kind of issue. I've noticed the interaction with the nazis, the Good Ol' Boys and Bob, the police forces. All these other scenes tell a story of their own in terms of subversiveness. I could expand on these but this post is long enough.

Sorry about that - will try to do better for the other parts of the movie that inspired me similar thoughts.

[Syd-Blues]

DA-MN Vinnie!

Great post, I had something to add onto it, but at the moment I've forgotten about it. So maybe later.

But great post, again.

[Chic_Lady]

Wow, Vinnie, I enjoyed your post, I think you analyzed that scene very well.

[Scott]

I don't think the rest of us will be able to post something as impressive, but hopefully that doesn't discourage from trying.

I think that in some cases, a person might find that a foreigner smells funny because of the different herbs and spices that their culture uses in cooking. It is a smell one is not familiar with, which makes it strange as well as the person. For example, some cultures use a lot of curry in their cooking, and the smell gets into their house and their clothing and stays there. They are used to it, but anyone who isn't finds the smell to be quite overpowering.

Ok, my turn...

The Blues sort of grew out of gospel music, and it was considered to be "black music" by the "whites". Fitting, then, that towards the beginning of the movie, Jake and Elwood are in the Triple Rock Baptist Church. It's also interesting that at the end of the movie they do a rock & roll number (Jailhouse Rock). Rock & Roll is said to have grown out of the Blues. The movie seems to follow the progression of musical genres.

The Maxwell Street scene is also a great bit of social commentary. Jake and Elwood, a couple of "white boys", driving into the middle of a "black neighborhood" and enjoying the street musicians and immersing themselves in the "black culture".

And finally, the terrific irony of Elwood, who often finds himself on the wrong side of the law, driving around in a police car. In the unfilmed whore house scene, Elwood mentions that Highway Patrol used to be his favorite television show.

[Jo_Pierce]

I agree. And I have been thinking a lot about this - what Vinnie wrote, and the reason I started this thread.

I wrote this chapter of my fanfic yesterday, sort of as a way to address EXACTLY what you guys are talking about - the brothers and their position in terms of race, class...

(Seriously, you don't have to be reading along to read this. The chapter takes place in Memphis, and there is a flashback scene. But it can stand alone. I personally was choking up as I wrote it - especially the bit about Curtis. I hope others appreciate it, too.)

[Vinnie Blues]

(trying to catch up...)

I completely agree with Scott about the music. The whole movie is a tribute to the American music, whether be it Black or White (see the bit with country). It's all about American music, gospel, country, blues, R&B, rock, etc.

Also your comment about Maxwell Street is interesting. Actually, Maxwell Street was more than a mere Black neighborhood. Some other folks lived there, especially a small Jewish community. There are some white people in the street (in the movie). I've read things about it, when I wanted to learn more, especially that now, this street doesn't exist anymore, at least as it was famous for, as it was pictured in the movie. That makes The Blues Brothers almost a historical document about that street, above in the extended version, where the atmosphere is very well depicted. People who will wish to see how it looked liked, should see that piece of footage, real great.

It saddens and hurts me to know that if I get there one day, I will never see that atmosphere again. No more grilled onions, no more music in the street, no more people selling and buying anything.

The residents there put up a fight against the University that took over the area. They even had the support of blues and music lovers, such as Dan Aykroyd himself, for the preservation of the place. How to destroy a cultural landmark... such a shame...

[Syd-Blues]

Gosh, Vinnie, keeping the thread alive.

Again, I agree.

(Can someone post something I don't agree with so I can jump off it, cause I got somethign to say, I just don't know where to start.)

[Vinnie Blues]

Thanks Syd... strange enough, when I posted the thing, it disappeared and I felt so much bad that I had to redraft everything again... and now it's back... mysteries of the internet I guess - technology don't like me... *sigh*

Y'all are a source of inspiration - don't blame me, eheheh ! LOL

Maybe you can post something yourself you disagree with - no, just kiddin' !!! I'm in a bad shape now and I guess it shows in my suggestions... silly suggestions... LOL

[Syd-Blues]

Hmm, I was gonna post somethign on race, but I drafted it out and it's pretty edgy....I dunno now.

[Jo_Pierce]

Syd, you should.

I think the whole topic of race has to be brought in here.

Here's my question to start it off.

Are Jake and Elwood "black"?

Discuss.

***

Race is a concept. It's a condition. It's not a skin color. It is how skin color (or hair color, or eye color, or whatever a society chooses to define as race) is used by a dominant population to classify another group. But why classify people? Simply put, it's to create an excuse to deny groups of people access to power, to wealth, or otherwise oppress them.

In the 19th century, the Irish in the US were categorically in the same position as blacks. They shared the same slums, were denied jobs just the same. They were treated awfully. The Irish actually, (and according to a number of scholars) had to BECOME WHITE. Their skin color allowed them to enter into that category easier than with blacks in the US.

Even today we talk about black people becoming white. The classic example is Michael Jackson. But I have also heard other black people like Bill Cosby, Oprah, Barack Obama (another topic) called "white" or "more white" - because they have power and access to wealth.



In the Blues Brothers, Jake and Elwood, as far as I am concerned, may very well be black.

Elwood mentions, in the sauna scene, how he's been exploited all his life.

But does THAT make them black. Not necessarily. Lots of people who are exploited are classified as white or other raceial groups.

Certainly, they are working class, and we shouldn't confuse the two (class and race) Never having access to things that many others take for granted made it very unlikely that they would ever get out of the working class. (Not having family ties, for one example, is crucial in upward mobility for most Americans, since families often help one another out in fiscal crunches, or inherit property. Without that, it's just another obstacle to making it...)

But the way that race and class intersect here is important. They are not going to (most likely) ever enter into middle class and predominantly white society. Certainly not the almost exclusively white upper class...

Plus, remember, they were brought up, really, by Curtis. The Penguin and the church were ever present, but I imagine that Curtis had a profound impact on them in terms of how they saw themselves, and not only how others saw them. What they learned about culture (music especially) came through the lens of a man who saw himself and was seen by others as being black.

Did they see themselves as black? Probably not racially. But probably culturally. Again, you can't confuse race and culture, and some would argue that being black is not a culture. But I think they probably feel more akin to blacks than to many whites.

Certainly, they can move in and out of white and black spaces easier than most. (From Chez Paul, where they can stick out - but probably more for their actions and lack of the body language of the rich than anything else) to Maxwell Street (where they can walk into the Cafe and order, or listen to the music on the street as if it was their very own frontyard.

In fact, I think that the Blues Brothers are a GREAT example of how race is a concept, and not something fixed or set in stone.

Then again, maybe they didn't even consider race as an issue at all. I would like to also believe that they saw it for what it is - a construction that, when you look at it closely, breaks down. It's a way to classify, to see others, or to see others. But it's not a thing that is really tangible.

**

Discuss....

[Syd-Blues]

Alot of my points were in there.

I was going to make the point that they probably identified more with blacks than whites, because of the posters on Elwoods wall. (Dr King, etc.)

[Basement_Blues]

I believe that the Blues Brothers were as culturally black as could be; they embraced the black culture and lived it all their lives. But they weren’t completely accepted by the black culture because of their skin color. Even when they’re almost blending in on Maxwell Street, Mrs. Murphy (Aretha) points out that they’re white, they stand out. Although They could switch back and forth between pretty much white-only places like the Chez Paul (That is, if they would behave ) and places of black culture like Maxwell Street, they will never be completely accepted in either cultural area, because they’re white on the outside (skin color only) and black on the inside (attitude and culture). They themselves try to show that there’s nothing in skin color, but some people have trouble with accepting that when they see them.
Am I making any sense? Haha.

[Vinnie Blues]

Very great posts y'all !!!

I enjoyed the topic. I think that the issue of race vs. culture is at the core of the movie. It's a movie about American music, whether black or white (blues and country and gospel, for example). There are several points in the movie where race/culture interacts :

- at the orphanage : Sister Mary and the nuns didn't care about the orphans' origins, this is not a white or black specifically orphanage. For them sisters, the boys were all children of God to be raised as good Christians. So Jake and Elwood grew up in a racially mixed environment.

- Curtis : the brothers' surrogate father definitely. In BB2K, Elwood says to Cab that they 'share' the same father. Cab points out that he's African-American (not Black !), clearly indicating that this is not the case of Elwood. Elwood replies, oh that's not a problem, "so was Curtis". Jake and Elwood felt high about having a father like Curtis, who seemed to be the only adult to have some authority on them ("Jake, you get wise ! You go to church !" and Jake did go there). The brothers even modeled themselves after Curtis. Apart from the color of their skin, nothing could really distinguish them three from each other.

- At the Triple Rock Baptist Church : everyone there's black, obviously. But nobody cares about these two white guys standing at the back of the church. Save maybe Rev. Cl. James, whose sermon seems to be delivered specially for Jake and Elwood. Lost souls ? For sure. Later, Jake is touched by divine grace in this place, he's the only one to see the light, along with the Reverend. (Not even Elwood can see the light.) The brothers go and dance with the people there, in a real communion. They don't share the bread but they shared the music and the dance, back to their roots in gospel.

- They feel as much at home in Maxwell Street (where you have also some white folks wandering along - this place was more a working class place rather than a Black ghetto), than as misplaced in a posh restaurant like Chez Paul. At this point, we can feel that definitely, Jake and Elwood belong to the Black culture. At this point, we can see the slide from race to culture.

- Ms Murphy's apparent 'racism' about her husband's 'white hoodlum friends' and her comment about 'Hassidic diamond merchants' is comparable as the Nazis' statement that 'the Jew are using the Black as muscle against the whites' (see the head nazi's speech). Though I suspect that she's more annoyed by the trouble Jake and Elwood seem to bring after themselves, rather than by their actual skin color. The 'hoodlum' part is more important than the 'white' part in her speech. And they blaspheme, that's the worst. (While the Nazis are overtly racists.) Once more, a question of social status and attitude - it's obvious that Ms Murphy wants to achieve social status and she considers her husband's friends as not worthy in this regard.

Jo is right about family ties and property. It's very difficult to get a place in society, even in the late 70s early 80s, when you have no network (family or business). The only network the brothers have is through their music - they seem to be quite well known in the area, and even this does not secure gigs that easily (see the sauna scene with Maurie Sline). Anyway, these two guys have nothing solid to start climbing up the social ladder.

I for one wondered for years if I had the good color to sing gospel and blues. I'm white, it took me years to understand that this is not a matter of skin color but of attitude indeed. Joy and hope, sadness and despair, misfortune and faith, are things that everybody can experience one day or so, despite one's skin color. Now I've no more complex being white and singing the blues and the gospel. I'm white but sometimes, I feel Black inside, my voice was compared to that of a Black and my idols in singing are Black (Billie Holliday, Mahalia Jackson, Bessie Smith, Ella Fitzgerald, Aretha Franklin, to name a few.)

Jake and Elwood are white, so what ? I'm reading a book by LeRoi Jones, entitled Blues People. Just started it but already it contains some hints that this is more a question of social status, belonging to a place, being a citizen of a nation - rather than being Black. Though it didn't help to be Black throughout history. But that doesn't mean that being white was of some help, Jake and Elwood's story is a proof of that.

[Vinnie Blues]

When you have no roots, like Jake and Elwood, it's much easier to create some to your liking. I guess that Jake and Elwood liked to have their roots in Black music, attitude and culture.


Jo is right about the Irish : in the South, the Irish were used for dangerous jobs as they had NO value, contrary to a slave who had a value. You could buy/sell a Black, but not an Irish. The Irish were considered as low in society as the Blacks - and sometimes even less.

[TakkunEG]

Here's an article that I ran across in my bookmarks. I haven't read it all the way through, just scanned it, but it seems it would pertain to the vein of this thread. Part movie review, part cultural and music industry insight.

The Blues Brothers
Bad boys make movie
by Doug Eisenstark
from Jump Cut, no. 23, Oct. 1980, pp. 1, 31
copyright Jump Cut: A Review of Contemporary Media, 1980, 2005
http://www.ejumpcut.org/archive/onlinessays/JC23folder/BluesBrothers.html

[Jo_Pierce]

Neat! Will check that out tomorrow!

[Vinnie Blues]

Real nice find, Takk !

I read the article. While I agree with some of the points raised there, in particular the bad image given of women in the movie, the author seems to overlook three essential issues :

- John and Dan made that film because they loved Black music - it clearly shows - and this was a tribute to it ;
- the movie helped revitalize the careers of artists like Aretha, James Brown and Ray Charles, which were left aside during the 'disco' era.
- the movie is very subversive in itself, through the eyes of two white men indeed, but nonetheless, the brothers are not part of the upper crust. If skin color was a factor of segregation (and still is somehow), being poor, without family/network/background, is as much a handicap in society. In some aspects, Ray, the Murphys and the Reverend look much more integrated in mainstream society than Jake & Elwood will ever be.

Otherwise that's an interesting text and surely food for thought for more discussion on this thread for the various issues raised. Definitely its place here !

[Syd-Blues]

Hang on I'll read this tomorrow.