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HELP A NEWBIE! [Pretty Advanced Question, Actually.]


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#1 Father Elwood

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 01:52 AM

Guys, I need some experienced people here. How do you make a harmonica make a "whiny" sound? Do you know what I mean? Let's see... Like what Elwood does in a solo in, "Hey Bartender." I can't get my harmonica to make that sound. And I've tried a lot of crazy things-- let me tell ya. :roll: Okay, I won't. But you get the drift.

And what is that sound called?

Every time I try to explain this to people, they tell me to try to make the sound. WITH MY MOUTH. Are they freakin' nuts? Anyway, I can't make the sound, but if no one knows what I'm talking about, I can try to find a clip on YouTube.

Allow me to elaborate. When I blow and draw, it's just a "hunnn." But Elwood makes like a... a uh... "hyyuuun." You know? It's just like, "Hyyyyuu hyuuu hyyyyuuun" and when I do it it's "hun hun hunnnn." I just have no idea what he's doin' in there.

I tried watching him do it. It looked like he was drawing. His cheeks were all sucked in, yanno? I couldn't really see what he was breathing like... darn those loose clothes. But I just couldn't understand it. Can someone explain this?

Here we go. A picture. But he wasn't doing the whiny sound here. But he was still making sounds I couldn't make my harmonica make.
Posted Image
I know he's had a lot of practice and all that, but geeze, man. The harmonica is the first instrument I've ever sucked at.

I want my music to sound... like it's got feeling, darn it. Feeling. I can make a guitar whine and scream. Now I want my harmonica to whine and scream! ;)

#2 Father Elwood

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 02:00 AM

And I need to be honest with you guys-- I'm a TOTAL newbie. I play it like a kid does, okay. They stick it to their mouth and make horrible sounds with it-- that is what I sound like right now.

I feel it in my heart but my mouth won't cooperate. :sad:

#3 FatJim

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 03:05 AM

Everyone has to be a beginner sometime!:)

I think you're talking about bending the pitch of the note, blues players do this a lot to create a bit of 'colour' in the music.

To bend notes you have to change the chape of your mouth and the pressure and direction of the airflow. It is actually pretty easy once you know how, but making that first leap can be hard for a beginner - don't despair! it comes to everyone eventually.

First thing I want to say is that to bend a note, you need to be able to get a good clean single note i.e. just one reed sounding - if you can't do that yet, then forget bending a while and concentrate on that.

Second is make sure you are blowing and drawing correctly. Seems kinda basic, but a lot of beginners make the mistake of blowing/sucking too hard or from the cheeks. Just try and breathe through the harp. Your tone will be better, you'll have more control and your harmonica will last longer. (the reeds do eventually go flat and you have to replace the harp)

When you are ready to bend your note then do this:

whistle a note.
Now try whistling the note so the pitch drops smoothly down - (think Wile E. Coyote falling down the canyon;))
Do it again and this time focus your attention on your tongue and lower jaw - feel how their shape and position change.
Now try the same thing, but whistling in reverse - so you're sucking not blowing.
Now try using the same tongue and jaw movements to bend a note on the harmonica. Use hole 3 draw - it's the easiest for beginners.

You won't be able to draw bend every note on the harp just holes 1-4 and 6. You can actually blow-bend holes 8, 9 and 10, but that's a whole new story!

I know it's frustrating, but learn to walk before you run. The harp is easy to play, difficult to master. Don't expect to pick it up and play the blues without putting in a lot of practice time. There are no shortcuts.

Trust me, put aside worrying about bending notes until you can play those clean single notes and a few simple melodies - 'Oh Susannah', 'When the Saints Go Marching In', 'Mary Had a Little Lamb' - I know they don't sound nearly so cool, but it's important to know where the notes are and how to play them first.

There are lots of good, free video lessons on YouTube. A lot are aimed at intermediate or advanced players (Adam Gussow's and Jason Ricci's particularly) but the ones by a guy called Jon Gindick are great for beginners http://www.youtube.com/user/JamCamp06 . He also has a website with some tutorial stuff www.gindick.com . He makes a living out of teaching harp, so expect to pay for some of it.

#4 Father Elwood

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 01:31 PM

I'm gonna break this into a few pieces and reply to a few areas. Anything I didn't reply to was very helpful and informational! Thank you so very much for such good advice. ;)

FatJim said:

First thing I want to say is that to bend a note, you need to be able to get a good clean single note i.e. just one reed sounding - if you can't do that yet, then forget bending a while and concentrate on that.
I can-- sometimes. I'm not all that consistent yet. And I know I'm not doing it the proper way. I am more "aiming" than "blocking." I've realized I have a pretty damn small tongue. http://www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum2/public/style_emoticons/default/icon_exclaim.gif So it's hard.

FatJim said:

Second is make sure you are blowing and drawing correctly. Seems kinda basic, but a lot of beginners make the mistake of blowing/sucking too hard or from the cheeks. Just try and breathe through the harp. Your tone will be better, you'll have more control and your harmonica will last longer. (the reeds do eventually go flat and you have to replace the harp)
YES! This is how I do it. I use my lungs. So that's how you do it?

I've heard harps have lifespans... good thing they're pretty cheap. I also have a habit of having a spare. Not sure why, though.

FatJim said:

When you are ready to bend your note then do this:

whistle a note.
Now try whistling the note so the pitch drops smoothly down - (think Wile E. Coyote falling down the canyon;))
Do it again and this time focus your attention on your tongue and lower jaw - feel how their shape and position change.
Now try the same thing, but whistling in reverse - so you're sucking not blowing.
Now try using the same tongue and jaw movements to bend a note on the harmonica. Use hole 3 draw - it's the easiest for beginners.
This is where I'm starting to have difficulty. I suck a drawing. I can blow much longer than I can draw. Is this just something that I can build strength in through practicing?

FatJim said:

You won't be able to draw bend every note on the harp just holes 1-4 and 6. You can actually blow-bend holes 8, 9 and 10, but that's a whole new story!

I know it's frustrating, but learn to walk before you run. The harp is easy to play, difficult to master. Don't expect to pick it up and play the blues without putting in a lot of practice time. There are no shortcuts.
Yeah. Blues is particularly difficult. I have some really BASIC songs that I've been practicing with... stuff like "When the Saints Go Marchin'in" and "Mary Had a Little Lamb." :? As lame as they sound, I think their purpose is to help me get a feel for it. Just like when I started typing, I had to type "The crazy red fox jumps over the big lazy dog," or something like that... had all the letters of the alphabet in it.

FatJim said:

Trust me, put aside worrying about bending notes until you can play those clean single notes and a few simple melodies - 'Oh Susannah', 'When the Saints Go Marching In', 'Mary Had a Little Lamb' - I know they don't sound nearly so cool, but it's important to know where the notes are and how to play them first.
LOL. Okay, I replied to that LAST quote before I read this one. So I'm guessing I'm doing things right so far. :eek:

FatJim said:

There are lots of good, free video lessons on YouTube. A lot are aimed at intermediate or advanced players (Adam Gussow's and Jason Ricci's particularly) but the ones by a guy called Jon Gindick are great for beginners http://www.youtube.com/user/JamCamp06 . He also has a website with some tutorial stuff www.gindick.com . He makes a living out of teaching harp, so expect to pay for some of it.
Excellent.
Pssh, I've been determined NOT to pay someone to teach me. That feels so much like cheating-- a cop out. Anyone can pony up cash. Not anyone can learn from the ground up! ;)

Thanks for this very helpful post. :) I've learned a lot!

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


#5 FatJim

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 05:04 PM

Father Elwood said:

I can-- sometimes. I'm not all that consistent yet. And I know I'm not doing it the proper way. I am more "aiming" than "blocking." I've realized I have a pretty damn small tongue. http://www.bluesbrotherscentral.com/forum2/public/style_emoticons/default/icon_exclaim.gif So it's hard.

Don't worry not everyone does it by tongue blocking - the 'pucker' method is a perfectly acceptable way too

Father Elwood said:

This is where I'm starting to have difficulty. I suck a drawing. I can blow much longer than I can draw. Is this just something that I can build strength in through practicing?

Yes, playing harp can help improve your lung capacity - I've even read of harmonicas being 'prescribed' for therapeutic reasons with people recovering from lung conditions:P

Father Elwood said:

Thanks for this very helpful post. ;) I've learned a lot!

You're welcome... keep us posted about how you're getting on. It sounds like you've already learnt a lot on your own. :D

#6 Father Elwood

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 05:36 PM

FatJim said:

Don't worry not everyone does it by tongue blocking - the 'pucker' method is a perfectly acceptable way too
I'm a little confused about puckering. Is that like like, closing your mouth over the holes?

FatJim said:

Yes, playing harp can help improve your lung capacity - I've even read of harmonicas being 'prescribed' for therapeutic reasons with people recovering from lung conditions:P
Whoa. That's good news. I know that singing has made my lungs a little stronger.

FatJim said:

You're welcome... keep us posted about how you're getting on. It sounds like you've already learnt a lot on your own. :D
Thanks. x3

Okay, I've got another question. When I draw, I feel like my throat is vibrating, and it's... weird. I don't know. I just don't know if it should be doing that. Is that normal? ;)

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#7 FatJim

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 06:04 PM

'Pucker' or lip-block is explained brilliantly here:



As to your throat vibrating - it just so happens that throat vibrato is a really important technique for developing good tone. I'm not sure if what you're describing is the same thing, so read about it here http://www.angelfire.com/tx/myquill/ThroatVibrato.html and decide if it's something good you need to cultivate! BTW this MyQuill site is a brilliant free resource for harmonica theory.

#8 Syd-Blues

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 06:57 PM

Wow. As a kinda-along-on-the-harp guy...you know that between beginning and intermidate, thanks for the help.

joking, of course.


#9 Father Elwood

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 02:06 AM

Update: No freaking progress. I haven't been playing. Or doing anything. Just laying around in my own self pity. Gawd, I hope people are right about teenagers going through "phases." This stuff better stop when I'm an adult! :mad:

Actually, I've had a LITTLE progress. I can play IN FRONT of people now without like, getting all embarrassed. So that means I can practice more.

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#10 Syd-Blues

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 12:41 PM

You need to practice in order to make progress.

joking, of course.


#11 Father Elwood

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 07:48 PM

Yep. If I don't practice. I'll always suck. Lol.

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#12 littleboyblues

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 11:22 AM

Fatjim, you are a beast harp teacher, you really should write a book. Allot of harmonica instruction books out there aren't half as good as what you just said ( with teh exception of Dave Barret's and Jerry Portnoy's for all you begginers out there).
Damn right I got the blues.:BB:





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